A Question Of Righteousness

I want to share some word for word communication I have had recently with a jihadist website. And I would really like it if the Muslims here would read it. I think you might find it enlightening. When I copy/paste the comments from Muslims I have talked too, I will merely refer to them as “Muslim” instead of their user name. Its a little long but worth the read.
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My comment,
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It may be that Allah will grant affection (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things), and Allah is Forgiving, Most Merciful.-AL-MUMTAHANA The WOMAN TO BE EXAMINED - SURAH LX:7
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See, that’s exactly how I see the One, I worship, He has power over all things, and is forgiving and merciful. And I love Him because He love me, better yet, I feel the same way that Job did when he said, “though He slay me, yet will I trust Him”.
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I have seen in other posts that you feel that others won’t accept you until you believe as they do.
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“And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their way…” [al-Baqarah; 120]
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I can tell you and anyone who reads this, that statement is NOT true.
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I don’t care who you worship, and I know that most others, feel the same way. I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. It appears to me that you really don’t have a true understanding of how we, as Christians think.
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I believe that faith, is a personal journey, that we should all be free to take, or not, if that is someones wish. That is why God has given us free will.
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Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. This is the best way to bring other to wanting to participate in any religion. Personally, I became a Christian based on the joy I saw in other peoples lives, I wanted that joy.
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Response from Muslim:
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This verse is not a commandment (Amr) in any way, shape or form. In fact, you need to look at verse 4 of the same Chapter to understand the verse you quoted above. It says,
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Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people: “Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone…”
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So the meaning of the verse you quoted is, “You continue to show them open disavowal, and know that Allah can guide them to Islam through your exposing of their falsehood (since this is a part of showing open disavowal) and they will be your friends.”
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[ I just have to interject here, and point out the difference between, how a Christian trys to bring someone into the faith, through genuine love and friendship. And how these Muslims do, which appears to be with contempt ]
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You wrote: “I have seen in other post that you feel that others won’t accept you until you believe as they do. “And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their way…
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No, the verse is true. Here, let me ask you a simple question. Do you support the Mujaahideen against your own people and do you wish for their victory?
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In any case, the Arabic word in this verse is “Millah” meaning “path, way of life, lifestyle etc” So the ending part of the verse is, “until you follow their way of life.”
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If you were to meet someone like me, you would either hate me and respect me at the same time, or hate me and wouldn’t respect me. Why? Because I will show open disavowal to you and will continue to do so, even if you are annoyed by it, until you become Muslim.
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Also, I don’t act like a disbeliever, talk like a disbeliever, walk like a disbeliever, dress like a disbeliever and so on. Many people hate that, but I love it because I live for Allah and I will continue to make sure that the disbelievers who know or see me don’t accept me.
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This verse you quoted has nothing to do with the actual Religion. In other words, it is not strictly saying, “until you follow their Religion” since Allah would have used the appropriate term for Religion which is Madhab. Instead, He wisely chose the word “Millah” since its all-encompassing of the lifestyle, path, etc. of disbelievers.
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Eagle’s response:
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It still appears to me that you really don’t have a true understanding of how we, as Christians, think.
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You said: “If you were someone like me, you would either hate me and respect me at the same time, or hate me and wouldn’t respect me. Why? Because I will show open disavowal to you and will continue to do so, even if you are annoyed by it, until you become Muslim.
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A true Christian, hate sin, but loves the sinner. Which means, what it says. A Christian should always speak with love, (though I have trouble with that myself sometimes), regardless of what is spoken too them. Most true Christians, know this and try to live by the words of Christ, we are not perfect, we are forgiven.
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So, I don’t hate you, or disrespect you. I understand that you think your way is the only way. I feel the same way about Christ. I think one of the main differences, between you and I, are how we choose to share our faith. And I stand by what I said above. Tell me why you think that is wrong. BTW, I am not claiming to be an expert on Islam, I am merely trying to understand.
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You asked if I supported the Mujaahideen against my own people, and do I wish for the Mujaahideen’s victory? I already answered that….
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I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. That includes, anyone who tried to force YOU to change your faith, or discriminated against you because of it.
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As far as “Millah” There are many different ways of life, and most of them, I don’t subscribe to either. As any person of faith, we lead our life based on our understanding of the scripture. But we don’t force our belief on others, or hate them if they don’t walk and talk the way we do. (see statement above)
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I believe that faith, is a personal journey, that we should all be free to take, or not, if that is someones wish, that is why God has given us free will.
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I think God wants us to come to Him out of love, not out of fear. Do you believe this??
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Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. What do you see in this statement that is wrong??
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This is the best way to bring others to wanting to participate in any religion. Personally, I became a Christian based on the joy I saw in others lives, I wanted that joy.
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Why do you share your faith?? Is it out of love?? Do you share your faith based on the fact that you love the person you are sharing with, and want them to go to Heaven with you?? Do you believe, that God is longsuffering, not wishing that any should perish??
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Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God has forgiven you. Do you believe this statement??
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(after post was erased 3 times, I re-posted the entire comment and added the following)
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If you feel that I have disrespected you in anyway, please forgive me, that is not my intent. I have read everything you have written in an attempt to understand your point of view and in an attempt for you to see mine. Is that not the reason you have comment sections?? I really do want you to answer my questions sincerely. Please don’t just erase it.
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Muslim response:
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Look eagle,
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You are wasting your time. The simple answer to your above statements is:
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We will continue to show open disavowal and enmity to you and your people until you become Muslim because we believe that you, the disbeliever, are the people of hellfire (unless if you become Muslim) and so we will treat you like such. And if you become Muslim, then you will become one of us and we will show mercy, compassion, and love for you and you will be a part of the universal brotherhood.
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If you are inquiring as to us dealing justly with you, the answer is yes and we will deal with you justly.
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If you are inquiring as to us being nice with you, the answer is we are not forbidden from acting nice with you, and nor are we forbidden from acting harsh with you. You are a disbeliever and we actually believe it. That’s the difference between us and you. You people don’t follow your Religion whereas we try to follow it to the teeth. A disbeliever has an evil presence because of their disbelief.
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Your “Millah” is what you follow and whatever it is that you follow, we reject it because it is not Islam.
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You didn’t answer my question about the Mujaahideen. Do you support them? If not, then stop wasting your time because we support them, even if you hate it.

You wrote,
“I think God wants us to come to Him out of love, not out of fear. Do you believe this??”
Allah will accept their Islam as long as he/she accepts Islam. It doesn’t matter if they were brought into Islam harshly or softly. As long as they accept it by the heart, Allah accepts it.
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And nobody is forcing you to change your faith. But we do have a concern regarding your disbelief and that is why we expose it. And blasphemy only deserves harshness.
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You wrote,
“Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. What do you see in this statement that is wrong??”
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It is wrong because Islam is balanced with hatred and love whereas you people rejected hatred. Since you rejected hatred, then it means you people love what your god hates; and what does your god hate?
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I wonder if you’ll even admit if he hates anything.
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If not, then we’ll assume that he loves prostitution, adultery, rape, alcohol, pornography, murder, oppression, cheating, stealing, and arrogance.
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And we are assuming that your god doesn’t reject this (since he has no hatred for this evil) because “Christianity is all about love,” right?
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That’s why your religion has no balance. You people are too afraid to speak about hatred. You people can’t even hate what god hates because your cowardice has taken over your steadfastness. You are not ready to face trials and tribulations for loving what god loves and hating what god hates, and showing it openly. This goes for the vast majority of Christians.
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You wrote,
“Why do you share your faith?? Is it out of love?? Do you share your faith based on the fact that you love the person you are sharing with and want them to go to Heaven with you?? Do you believe, that God is longsuffering, not wishing that any should perish??”
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We share our faith not to convert people like your missionaries. Rather, we share our faith to inform the people of the only truth. And not only do we simply just tell them what Islam is, but we establish it in their locality so they can see the truth working in front of their eyes.
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Indeed, we do have a concern for all disbelievers because when they die upon their disbelief, we see it as a tragedy (except in the battlefield) since their soul would be lost in the punishment of the hellfire and we might have had the ability of telling them about Islam. Even at their very last breaths, we wish to tell them: “Say, “There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His final Messenger.”
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You wrote,
“Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God has forgiven you. Do you believe this statement??”
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No because Allah will never forgive Shirk as long as one is practicing it, and therefore, we will never forgive them nor show them a soft heart. And by the way, Allah forgives all other sins (such as adultery, theft, murder, oppression etc.) but He will never forgive Shirk as long as one dies upon it. Muse over this.
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The real discussion here is why aren’t you Muslim?
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My response to him:
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You said,:
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“What does your god hate?I wonder if you’ll even admit if he hates anything.If not, then we’ll assume that he loves prostitution, adultery, rape, alcohol, pornography, murder, oppression, cheating, stealing, and arrogance.’
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The God I worship, hates sin, and probably it is the same sin that your God hates. The main difference is that we try to live by the words of Christ and it is not our place to judge.
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There is a story in the Bible about a woman who was about to be stoned for adultery. Jesus said to the people that were about to do the stoning, “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.” The people left. Jesus said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”
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Although we have our sins forgiven, it does not mean that we are allowed to go out and keep doing the things we were doing before we were saved. The Bible speaks against this.
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Jesus said,: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
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We believe,
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JUDGE not, that you be not judged.“For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.“And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?“Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
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You should learn more about what Christians believe, I am trying to learn more of what Muslims believe. You might find that in some areas we are a lot alike. We like you, have a lot of people who claim to be Christians, but do not act like one.
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We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done..For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

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Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God’s anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us.
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Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith..Faith eliminates the pride of human effort, because faith is not a work that we do. Faith exalts what God has done, not what people do. Faith admits that we cannot keep the Law, or measure up to God’s standard–we need help. Faith is based on our relationship with God, not our performance for God.
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Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.
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Paul said, (1 Cor. 4: 3-5) ” I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself..My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”
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(vs12) We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world. Therefore I urge you to imitate me.”
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What a better example to follow?? And as I have already said, Jesus spoke on how to treat people who persecute us because of our faith. You asked me why aren’t I a Muslim. You have not shown me a reason to become a Muslim. I want joy in my life, peace and love and to be able to sing and raise my hands in praise and joy when worshiping God.
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I worship a God that I KNOW loves me. I share my faith because I want others to feel the joy that I feel. When I see Muslims worshiping in the Mosques, I never see them joyfully praising God, or singing to the Lord. Maybe I missed something. Please tell me if I have. Do you sing praises to the Lord? I never see anyone smiling while worshiping.
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You keep asking about the Mujaahideen. And if I support them and I keep answering… I would NEVER support anyone or anything that would cause one to change their faith by force, or to discriminate against someone because of their faith. That includes, anyone who tried to force YOU to change your faith, OR discriminated against you because of it.
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It is just as wrong when you try and do that to Christians, as if Christians did that to you. How is it that you ignore this fact?? I may not agree with you in what, or how you worship. But it is not my place to force you to change.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, you want to create a Taliban style government world wide. Is that true?? If so, how is that any different than if we tried to force our views on you??
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(end of comments)
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These comments were continually erased, no matter how many times I posted them (thank goodness for the copy/paste option. I saved everything into a draft file in my email, in case you are wondering, because they have erased my comments before).

I then sent the following comment, knowing it would be read, before it was erased.
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If you are righteous in your thoughts and writings then you should not fear what the kufar has to say. If a person is not using foul language, then why would you erase what they had to say?? Are you afraid that they might influence a Muslim coming to your website?? Surely you don’t think that your opinion is so weak that it cannot stand up to remarks by someone with a differing view.
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Since you keep erasing my comments, I am left with only one thought. You are afraid of others seeing my response. You are afraid that my words might influence another Muslim. You are not as righteous as you would have others believe. Your words are false. You lie not only to yourself but to others. If this was not true, you wouldn’t be afraid of my comments.
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You are afraid, even in this old post that nobody comes too any more. What is it that causes you to erase my post?? Please answer that for me. (end of comment)
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If you are a Muslim, Ask yourself a question, Why erase those comments?? So you tell me, IF they are so righteous, why erase my comments?? That question goes out to the radicals as well.
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Tell me if you see anything offensive in those comments.

Peace Be Upon Who??

The following comes from a jihadist website, it is a comment posted by “Jeff”, and the answer he received. It is strickly copy/paste as all comments taken from Islamist websites will be.


Jeff in USA -

I wish I could call you my Muslim friend, My Muslim brother, but sadly I cannot. Like so many humans, you have a strong faith that empowers you, but have you examined your faith? Are you humble before the creator, the one you call Allah (PBUH)?

Take a look around the world. Take a look through history. There were many (are many) people that believe they have THE answer to this mystery called life. Look at how Christians have killed Muslims, look at how they have killed Jews. Look at how Muslims have killed Jews and Christians. Look at how Jews have killed Muslims and Christians. And why? Much of it is traced back to the fervent belief that each group thinks it is the practitioner of the one true faith.

I will not change your mind. I cannot change your mind. For I have not come to know the being that you call Allah. For that “sin” it appears from your belief system that I am less, that I can and should be killed. It was sad when the Christians were killing Muslims and Jews for their Christian God. It is just as sad that Muslims are killing each other and members of other belief systems in the name of Allah (PBUH)..

Your fellow man, be it a Jew or a Christian, or even a person that knows not what to believe, is not your enemy. Your enemy is within yourself. Allow yourself to re-learn peace. Allow yourself to re-learn love. Allow yourself to examine why you believe the creator wishes us to kill our fellow man if they do not believe exactly as you believe.

You will find that the creator is glorified through helping your fellow man come to the truth instead of killing him for not sharing your belief.

Response to Jeff from Muslim:.

To Jeff, you approached Mujahid very plainly and humbly and not with violence or threats like what my buddy used to receive from an American soldier that read his blog. If that is the case, you aren’t the one we’re fighting. .

Our mission is to bring Islam to the world by both preaching and by force. Now, on a personal level, Islam only spreads by preaching and acceptance. We’re not out to kill people of other religions for having another belief, otherwise their conversions wouldn’t be valid because of the coercion. But the government of Islam, the Shariah, (Sharia Law) that is what we spread by force except for cases where a people en masse, or a leader accepts Islam of their own will. The Shariah rule is what we spread by force when a people resist, because the Shariah is just for ALL people of all religions..

We’re not out to harm you personally, especially if you’re not out after us. But we are convinced of the truth of our religion and we’re not allowed to accept non-Islamic rule over ourselves or call other religions valid..

end comments.
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It should be noted here that these people DO NOT consider Iran a Islamic state. So what do they consider an Islamic state?? And how would it affect Muslims world wide?? I think it is something Muslims should ask themselves..

Please, anyone who visits “jihadist” websites, should be respectful. There is no need to act like your mother never taught you any manners. No one can change peoples minds by acting like that. Those kind of comments are the main ones that the jihadist, DON’T erase. They are used as an example of how/why it is “OK” to attack and kill non-Muslims. .

There is a rule that we should all follow. It is….”Do unto others that which you would have done unto your self.” If you, would not want Christianity forced upon you, then you should not want Islam forced upon someone else. That should be a principle shouted from the rooftops..
Forcing Sharia on anybody, falls under the same category. .

Peace be upon you, is a common greeting in the Muslim world. I agree, may peace be upon us all. The jihadist could learn from that short greeting that they use many times a day. So many times in fact, that I don’t think that they even consider the words they are speaking. For them, it is more of a….peace be upon everyone except…you, you, and anyone else who doesn’t think like I do. .

Peace be upon you. And remember, God is watching.

Islamist Principle of Repayment In Kind

I am really trying not to be too sarcastic. I don’t want to offend our Muslim friends, but some of this stuff really gets too me. Not to mention the fact that I don’t see a lot of Muslims, trying to not offend Christians.

Take for example, the line about idolaters…can you please tell me what idol we are worshiping?? I could say more here, but I’m not going too.

A. Jihad Against the Jews and the Crusaders

One example of this is Bin Laden’s declaration of Jihad against the Jews and Crusaders. On February 23, 1998 the London Arabic-language daily Al-Quds Al-Arabi published bin Laden’s declaration of Jihad which said that killing the Americans and their allies is a commandment for every individual Muslim. The following are excerpts of this declaration:

“Praise be to God, who brought down the Book, drives the clouds, defeats the factions, and says in His Book: When the sacred months are over, kill the idolaters wherever you find them, take them captive, lay siege to them and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush [Qur’an 5:9]… Prayers and blessings of peace upon our Prophet Muhammad, who said: I was sent with a sword in preparation for the Day of Judgment when God alone will be worshipped with none beside him. He assigned me a livelihood under the shadow of my spear and he assigned humiliation and lowliness to those who disobey my command…

Isn’t this nice. Maybe its just me, but where I go to church, I never hear anything about killing people where ever I find them. Under ANY circumstances. Not to mention the fact that my God does not require me to do anything, to advance His appearance. Unlike Islam, which thinks it needs to “help” Imam Mahdi, by killing the Jews. Yeah. More on that later.

“Killing the Americans and their allies – both civilians and military personnel – is a commandment for every individual Muslim who can do this, in any country in which he can do this, in order to free the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Al-Haram Mosque from their grasp, and so that their armies will leave all the lands of Islam defeated and no longer a threat to any Muslim. This is in compliance with the words of Allah: ‘Fight the polytheists all together, as they fight you all together [Qur’an 9:36]’ and ‘Fight them until civil strife ceases altogether’ [Qur’an 8:39].

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Idiot, just what “threat” were we to Muslims, before this moron decided to attack us. If I was a Muslim, I would be pretty pissed off at mr. bin lyin, for the wrath he brought down on a lot of people. And for the record, we are not polytheists. As a matter of fact, since we aren’t polytheist, that kind of does away with the above listed order, doesn’t it??
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The Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, explained the principle of repayment in kind during a speech at an October 1999 conference of nuclear scientists from Arab countries on the future of nuclear strategy at the University of Asyut, Egypt. While stating that the Arabs should have nuclear energy but should use it only for peaceful purposes, he also quoted from the will of Caliph Abu Bakr.

Sheikh Tantawi said that the Caliph had instructed the Muslim commander Khaled ibn Al-Walid to fight the enemy with the sword if the enemy fought him with the sword and to use the spear if the enemy fought him with the spear. Sheikh Tantawi explained:

“Had Abu Bakr lived today he would have said to Khaled ibn Al-Walid: ‘If they fight you with a nuclear bomb, fight them with a nuclear bomb.’ Strength is [one] of the traits of good and wise people who know their obligation towards their God and towards their homeland, and they use this strength in order to defend their faith and their homeland. This is the Sunna that was known to the forefathers of all times, and is known to us as well.

“… Our demand that Israel join the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty does not prevent us from learning and advancing in science until we surpass it and until we act in accordance with Abu Bakr’s words to Khaled ibn Al-Walid: ‘Fight them with that with which they fight you.’ Islam welcomes any force that serves truth and religious precepts and defends the honor of men. Islamic religious law states that every despotic and aggressive power must be eradicated. It should be fought, whatever its strength, and life is decreed by Allah. If Israel has nuclear weapons, then it is the first to be doomed, because it lives in a world that does not fear death. Israel’s nuclear weapons do not frighten us; what does frighten us is [the possibility] that we will not wake up and [will] not advance. [Muslims must] welcome the use of nuclear energy for purposes of peace!” (Right, I buy that one)

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Another contradiction here, he states that, if Israel has nuclear weapons, then it is the first to be doomed, because they do not fear death. In other words, tell Israel, we don’t care about collateral damage to the Palestinians, when we use our nuclear weapons, because we don’t fear death. Then in the same sentence, says they only want nuclear energy for “peaceful” purposes. Look guys, if you want people to believe you, your going to have to do better than that.
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In addition, lets look at the statement he made saying,…”Islamic religious law states that every despotic and aggressive power must be eradicated.” GREAT, I am really happy to see that.
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I say for the next year or so, we follow the rule of Islam in how we go to war and how we fight!! What do you think?? I don’t know about you but I consider Ahmadnutjob, aggressive and despotic. Syria likes to stick its nose in Lebanon’s business too, and not in a diplomatic way. There’s Hezbollah, and hammas, in the area that are pretty aggressive too. These are some starting points anyway.
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Now, since Islam rules under a tit for tat system, (they obviously never heard of the golden rule) and we are going to operate under their rules, at least in some areas, we should be able to do the same thing to them. Right?? Since their goal is to conquer the earth and declare it for Allah, close down churches, have non-Muslims, wear a sort of yellow star, with a shaved spot on the front of their hair. Charge them a jizya tax, which some claim is for the kufar’s “protection”. No weapons, no horses, no religious jewelry, etc.
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They should readily go along with us doing the same to them, right?? That means they should have no problem if mosques get bombed. Or Muslims are robbed. Or, say, have to wear a yellow moon crescent, so we know who they are. No foot washing stations. No hijabs, or head coverings of any kind, no beards for men.
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Any questions, comments…Seriously All those who believe that it is your duty, to perform jihad, to spread Islam worldwide and with it sharia law. Lets hear from you. How does my idea grab you?? Come on there has got to be at least somebody who believes in this stuff with the guts to comment on this.
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Can we at least get some Muslims to comment, that they think the idea of doing unto others, what they don’t want done, is wrong?? The idea of jihad to further Islam, by force, is wrong, wrong, wrong. Come on, let me hear you say it.